The HumanCurrent

The podcast about complexity.
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The HumanCurrent




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Apr 21, 2017

In the spirit of Earth Day approaching, Angie and Haley discuss the importance of being environmentally consciousness. They also share clips from past guests, Laurie Marshall, Chris Ling, and James Greyson, who responded to a quote by environmental activist, Annie Leonard. Her quote states: “The assumptions that ‘pollution is the price of progress’ or that ‘we must choose between jobs and the environment’ have long limited our creative thinking about innovative solutions that can be good for the environment, the workers, and a healthy economy.”

Apr 6, 2017

In this episode, Angie interviews the Director of the School of Environment and Sustainability at Royal Roads University, Professor Chris Ling. Chris shares his experiences with sustainable community planning throughout his career, including some fascinating research he conducted on the scalability of farmer’s markets. Chris also explains the importance of implementing solutions which are “based on the local socio-ecological reality”.  

Mar 23, 2017

In this episode, Haley interviews author, public speaker, and education transformer, Laurie Marshall. Laurie discusses her passion for empowering youth through creative collaboration and introduces her new book, Beating the Odds Now, which she describes as “a love letter for teachers” to help them feel inspiration and joy in their work. Laurie also shares the importance of looking to nature as a tool for learning and a way for each individual to discover their inner genius. Learn more at The cover image for this episode is titled “Fig Singing Tree of the Child”.

Mar 9, 2017

In this episode, Haley interviews professor, complexity scientist, and founding president of the New England Complex Systems Institute (NECSI), Yaneer Bar-Yam. Yaneer talks about how we can understand complex systems science by applying it across all of the systems we interact with in our society today. He also explains the importance of flatter, team-oriented organizations when dealing with complexity because, he says, today’s hierarchical organizations are limited by “what one individual can do and individuals have a limited degree of complexity that they can cope with". Also, in this episode, Angie and Stacy Hale discuss how the role of leadership is changing in the face of more and more complex problems. They also talk about Stacy’s experience as a student at NECSI.

Feb 23, 2017

In this episode, Angie interviews innovator, silicon valley veteran, and VP of Marketing at iCharts, Rico Andrade. Rico discusses the importance of a leader’s role in empowering teams and creating the right environment and conditions for them to interact and make real-time decisions. He also explains that because the world is more complex and data-driven it is becoming more important than ever for leaders to release some control and allow for emergent insights to play a role in guiding business decisions. Rico claims that using “data as a team member” is a powerful way for leaders to design employee collaboration and problem-solving.

Feb 9, 2017

In this episode, Haley interviews entrepreneur, teacher and visionary, Paolo Gaudiano, who applies complexity thinking to all aspects of his work and life. He is the President and Chief Technology Officer at Icosystem, which is an inspirational organization that combines expertise in human behavior & decision-making with simulation and optimization techniques inspired by complexity science and biology to build predictive analytics solutions. Paolo is also a professor at CCNY and a Forbes contributing author of a blog called, The Complexity of Diversity.

Jan 26, 2017

In this episode, Angie interviews consultant, blogger, and systems thinker, Scott Jancy. Reflecting on his background in architecture, Scott discusses why he believes design and leadership are synonymous. He explains how leaders can successfully utilize systems thinking for problem solving, stating that “solutions often emerge on their own with a little coaxing". Scott also emphasizes the importance of leadership vision while approaching complex problems. Check out his leadership blog at

Jan 12, 2017

In this episode, Angie and Haley welcome the new year and get excited about their upcoming series on the complexity of leadership. They also introduce upcoming guests, Scott Jancy and Paolo Gaudiano, and share their responses to the question: “how did you become interested in complexity?”

Dec 17, 2016

In this episode, Angie and Haley share clips from past interviews about the power of human networks. They also reminisce about what they have learned in 2016 and share their excitement about upcoming guests and topics to come in the new year. Happy holidays from the HumanCurrent Complexity Podcast!

Nov 17, 2016

In this episode, Angie interviews Founder and Chief Scientific Officer of Cognitive Edge, Dave Snowden. Professor Snowden describes his work with complexity and how it applies to decision-making. He also introduces us to “anthro-complexity”, which is a term he has coined to represent a whole new approach to human systems based on natural science. Professor Snowden explains that “human systems are fundamentally organic entities”, so they should be studied as entirely different forms of complex systems.

Nov 4, 2016

In this episode, Angie and Haley explore their political mental models in order to question their own assumptions and ideologies. They also share clips from past guests, John Feehery and Spencer Gerrol, regarding presidential power in the USA. Additionally, they discuss some helpful resources, like the quiz on, to help increase awareness of the complexity underneath most political “talking points”.

Oct 20, 2016

In this episode, Angie interviews Spencer Gerrol, a human behavior specialist, applied neuroscience expert, and founder and CEO of SPARK Experience. Spencer shares the results from a research study he performed with his team to gather biofeedback data from both Trump and Clinton supporters. He also discusses the importance of valuing and understanding emotions in order to make more mindful decisions.

Oct 5, 2016

In this episode, Haley interviews Republican strategist, columnist, and part-time lobbyist, John Feehery, on the complexity of politics in the United States of America. John describes his political outlook and shares how and why democracy requires a lot of personal accountability from all American citizens.

Sep 24, 2016

In this episode, Angie and Haley ask past guests—Benjamin Taylor, Angela Montgomery, Oleg Konovalov, and Sonja Blignaut—to share their thoughts on a quote by Jeff Lawrence. His quote states, “There is no such thing as a dysfunctional organization, because every organization is perfectly aligned to achieve the results it gets.”

Sep 9, 2016

In this episode, Angie interviews Sonja Blignaut who is a narrative practitioner, change catalyst, and founder of a niche consultancy called More Beyond. Sonja shares how using a complexity thinking approach to study and influence company culture can help leaders avoid best practice recipes and reach positive organizational change.


Aug 19, 2016

In this episode, Haley interviews Benjamin Taylor, a business evolutionary, systems thinker, and avid learner. Benjamin discusses the intended and unintended consequences of systemic leadership, and he describes the philosophical side of company culture, as well as, how leaders can influence company culture.

Aug 4, 2016

In this episode, Haley interviews Dr. Oleg Konovalov, who is the author of a new management concept called Organisational Anatomy, which views organisational processes and functions from a biological perspective. Dr. Oleg shares some key concepts from his new book, along with several metaphoric examples to help unpack complexity and make it more digestible.

Jul 21, 2016

In this episode, Angie interviews author, entrepreneur, and systemic thinking advocate, Angela Montgomery PhD. Angela discusses the importance of leadership education and systemic thinking within organizations and she shares some key insights and tools for managing business complexity.

Jul 7, 2016

In this episode, Haley interviews Dr. Daniel Taber, a scientist who specializes in food policy and systems research. In his interview, Dr. Taber uses real-world language and examples to explain the complex relationship between system science, science communication, policy change, and public health.   

Jun 24, 2016

In this episode, Angie interviews D’Artagnan Caliman, a child welfare consultant, who discusses the complexity of serving two million people with many different interconnected network service groups and stakeholders. His enlightening case study reveals the importance of cause prevention within the child welfare system, rather than simply treating the symptoms of family dysfunction as they arise.


Jun 11, 2016

In this episode, Haley interviews Jasper Faolan, a writer, psychiatric nurse practitioner, and founder of Journal to Save Your Life, which is a free, online mental health program. Jasper advocates for self-expression, including storytelling, as a way for people to heal from trauma and mental health problems. And, she explains how her non-profit (J2SYL) promotes social change by connecting the dots within complex adaptive systems.

May 26, 2016

In this episode, Stacy interviews Angie about the ins and outs of action research for her Master’s in Leadership project. Together, they also introduce the topic of complex human networks with guest Mary Anne Herrick, who is the Communication’s Program Officer at World Vision and the President of Foster Care Alumni of America (FCAA). FCAA is also the sponsoring organization for Angie’s Master project.

May 6, 2016

In this throwback episode, Haley shares some clips from past guests: Diego Espinosa, TK Coleman, Gloria Burgess, and Jason Dykstra. The clips from their interviews are responses to these questions: what is a self organizing system, how did you become interested in systems thinking, and why does understanding complexity matter?

Apr 22, 2016

In this episode, Angie interviews Andrea Ippolito, who is the Innovator's Network Lead at the Department of Veteran Affairs. Andrea shares how human-centered design is implemented and deployed at the VA in order to create exceptional experiences for our veterans. Her examples and advice are helpful for anyone wanting to build an innovation strategy using design and systems thinking methods.

Apr 7, 2016

In this episode, Haley interviews Jon Kolko, the VP of Design at Blackboard and the founder of the Austin Center for Design. He is also an author of several books, including Well-Designed: How to Use Empathy to Create Products People Love, which is discussed in this episode. Jon shares his vast knowledge and experience with complexity, design, and problem solving.

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